Listen to intersex activists talk about their hopes for the future after the historic OHCHR report addressing the human rights situation of their community
“We have shown that intersex people exist. We are part of societies. We are part of communities. We are families. We are daughters. We are children. We are parents. My hope for the future is us using this visibility as positivity and as power to continue until all intersex people are free.”
In September 2025, the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights of the United Nations presented its first-ever report on discriminatory laws and policies, violence, and harmful practices against intersex persons.
Over 190 organisations and activists — including intersex people worldwide — contributed to it, ensuring that intersex voices are now on official United Nations record. Thanks to their work, States will no longer be able to ignore the realities they describe and must begin to rectify historic injustices.
We recently welcomed intersex human rights defenders from all over the world to Geneva as the report was presented at the United Nations. ILGA World sat down with them to talk about what it feels like to have this report, how activists can use its recommendations to bring about positive change in their own countries, and their hopes for the future. Enjoy your listening!
Episode transcript
Now, we have shown that intersex people exist. We are part of societies. We are part of communities. We are families. We are daughters. We are children. We are parents. We exist everywhere in society. And I think, now, my hope for the future is us using this visibility as positivity and as power to continue until all intersex people are free.
Making Rainbow Waves, a podcast by ILGA World.
(music)
Welcome to Making Rainbow Waves, the podcast by ILGA World, where we tell the stories of LGBTI human rights defenders worldwide.
My name is Daniele Paletta, and today, we are reuniting with incredible intersex activists from all over the world to discuss some truly historic news.
In September 2025, the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights of the United Nations presented its first-ever report on discriminatory laws and policies, violence, and harmful practices against intersex persons.
Now, you may wonder: why is the report such a big deal? Well, because over 190 organisations and activists, including intersex people worldwide, contributed to it. This means that intersex voices are now on official United Nations record in a report. States will no longer be able to ignore the realities they describe and must begin to rectify historic injustices.
ILGA World and other organisations welcomed intersex human rights defenders from all over the world to Geneva as the report was presented at the United Nations. We sat down with them to talk about what it feels like to have this report, how activists can use its recommendations to bring about positive change in their own countries, and their hopes for the future. Enjoy your listening!
Hello, everyone. My name is Evá Papadakis. I’m doing communications for human rights organisations, and it’s a real pleasure to be with you all here today to listen, learn and reflect on the significance of this first ever UN report on intersex rights and what it means for activism going forward. Before we start, I’d love to hear your names, pronouns, and country.
Hi everyone. My name is Crystal Hendricks. My pronouns are she/her. I’m from Cape Town, South Africa, and I am the Sex characteristics programmes officer at ILGA World.
Hello, I’m Kimberly Zieselman. She/her pronouns. I am an intersex woman and the Senior advisor for global intersex rights at Outright International, based in the United States.
Hello, my name is Kaisli Syrjanen. I’m from Finland. I’m an Executive board member of OII Europe.
Mabuhay! Jeff Cagandahan. Pronouns he/him, Executive director of Intersex Philippines and board member of Intersex Asia, based in the Philippines.
Hello everyone. My name is Obioma Chukwuike. I’m from Nigeria. I’m the Executive director of Intersex Nigeria and the Board chair of African Intersex Movement.
I am Natasha Jimenez Mata, I’m from Costa Rica. I’m the director of a Costa Rica-based organization called Mulabi – Latin American Space for Sexuality and Rights.
Hello. My name is Ale Lopez Bemsch. My pronouns are masculine. I’m from Argentina and I’m with an organisation called Intersex Argentina and I am part of the ILGALAC Intersex Committee.
Hello, I’m Morgan Carpenter. I am the Executive director of InterAction for Health and Human Rights, an Australian organisation by and for people with innate variations of sex characteristics. My pronouns are he/him. I’m an intersex man.
So last year we met with some of you here in Geneva as you advocated for the intersex resolution, which the Human Rights Council approved, mandating the Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights to prepare a report about discriminatory laws and policies, acts of violence and harmful practices against intersex persons. Could you tell me a bit about what has happened since the resolution was passed?
Well, since the resolution was passed, something historic has happened for our community because resolutions for other populations had already been passed. There’s already a SOGI mandate. But for a movement like the intersex movement, which has very few resources, to achieve this through hard work until the resolution was passed, I think it’s wonderful, especially for a movement that is relatively small compared to other movements that have many more resources.
Since the resolution was passed, I think we have more tools as a movement to provide more rights for our communities. And I think this is something wonderful, and we need to get more out of it.
Last year, when we were here talking about the passing of the resolution, we were all skeptical about it. And we all hoped for joy. Now, we’re here talking about the presentation of the report which the resolution called for.
We welcome it as a great victory, a milestone and a historic one: the first ever panel dedicated to intersex rights at the Human Rights Council, after the first advocacy was done here in 2015!
I think now what we are going to be reflecting on is how this report is going to take us to the next steps: implementation at the national level. Because, at the end of the day, the report is a beautiful piece, but if the things that are mentioned in the report are not reflected in the lives of intersex people on ground in different regions, different countries, rural areas, that means the report would just be a document that is just on the.
So I think: the next step is looking at what can be done with the report and how our allies, different civil societies, UN agencies and even us intersex human rights defenders can use this report as a leverage for the work that we do. So: I’m excited to be here to talk about it, and I’m also here with great friends and colleagues, and we are all in a good mood. I’m looking forward to what we can all do together.
I think this has been a very busy year for us since the passing of the resolution. As you know, the OHCHR released the call for inputs for the report. So, this left a lot of intersex organisations and different allied organisations very busy this year, compiling data for our submissions to the OHCHR. And now it’s just wonderful to be at this opportunity where the report has now officially been released. And we can see that the OHCHR really centred intersex voices on the report: even the consultation process was in regular communications with intersex community.
So, yes: we know that this report is about us, the resolution is about us, but we also feel some some pride that we’ve been a part of this whole journey and the whole process — knowing that it’s not just been this year: activists for more than 15 years have been working directly with the UN, and we are bearing the fruits of all of their labor. Our work is not in vain, because we can see what is happening from the work that we are doing. And I think it kind of just ignites a fire within you to say that, you know, we can obtain intersex justice, and one day intersex people will be free.
I think it’s been great seeing what’s going on and how this resolution has changed some thinking in some states. Also, it’s really good to see that we are a big delegation here this year: this is like kind of a celebration.
I think the really important thing is that in the report, there was a strong emphasis on how how the harmful practices are based on misinformation and misinterpretation of issues. And then, another thing: in the panel, many people emphasised the need for cooperation among States, international organisations, civil society. And that’s one thing we need to think about — what it means for us, how to go forward.
I would just like to add to that as well. I think it is a moment when our movement needs to think more broadly about cross-movement allyship with folks that are doing similar work in children’s rights spaces, disability rights’ spaces, women’s spaces, et coetera.
The bulk of our work so far has been in allyship — largely with the support of some folks in the broader rainbow community, the LGBTQ community. Also: particularly when we’re talking about the number one issue most of us talk about, which is medically unnecessary non-consensual surgeries on intersex infants and children, we really are talking about a children’s rights issue. I think this report and the work that’s gone on for the last 10+ years by many people — including those who are not on this podcast right now — should be celebrated.
And also, we need to broaden our circle of friends and activists, and bring them into the fold as we move forward, to keep the momentum going.
I think this week has also been a really important opportunity to meet together and celebrate a win in difficult times when there is a shift, a lurch to the right and to the far-right in many countries that is having a big impact on resourcing for intersex organising, which has a huge impact on our organisations, and it also has an impact on how the Human Rights Council might talk about our issues.
So it’s a win in this context, and a moment where so many States and civil society organisations have made statements that really go to the heart of some of the healthcare and human rights issues that we face is really important. But taking stock is also a chance for us to talk about where we go from here, in this radically different and difficult time?
I think I really hear the importance of togetherness and cooperation on so many different levels from all of you. And just witnessing you these past few days all together has been very inspiring. Could you tell me a bit about how it feels, after all this hard work you all put into it, to finally have this report out?
I feel a deep sense of pride and validation seeing the OHCHR resolution with the report presented to the Human Rights Council. It is a powerful acknowledgement of the struggles and resilience of the intersex community worldwide, because for years, intersex activists fought for recognition for our basic human rights to be respected and for the eradication of harmful practices.
This report marks a significant step forward in our collective journey towards dignity, justice and equality. But it’s bittersweet, though, because while it’s a major victory, it also underscores the long road ahead.
The work is far from done, but this report provides a global platform for our voices, giving us hope that the world is beginning to understand that our humanity should not be defined by societal norms. And this presentation is a victory not just for us as individuals, but for the whole movement. It signals that the international community is listening and that change is not just possible: it’s happening.
Wow! That’s amazing, Jeff.
It feels good. I think… sitting in the room yesterday and listening to all the interventions — which were all positive: from States, from UN agencies, from allies, different organisations — and also to witness more than five intersex people make an oral statement in a room at the same time… It’s so historic! Like, I’ve never seen that in my entire life! And I hope this is something that’s gonna continue.
I am excited because I see that, as intersex people, we are changing the narrative and we are ensuring — as the the goal for the SDGs is to leave no one behind — we are making sure that we are not being left behind and we are standing at the forefront for intersex rights. So: it’s a very happy moment, and it’s a moment to just do some introspection and take a bit of stock. But also, as Jeff said, it’s also knowing that this work has begun many years ago, but it’s still a long journey ahead of all of us to do this work. But in this moment… very excited, very happy. I am just having this feeling of intersex joy. Intersex joy.
As Crystal rightly says, this is a very happy moment for the intersex community. It is a time to celebrate. But this should not stop us from continuing to fight, because this is just one of many steps.
We must keep moving forward, we must keep working so that in these difficult times, when there is a culture of undermining the rights of other populations, this does not set us back. So let’s celebrate now. But we must keep in mind that we must continue working so that our rights are not lost and we gain even more.
First of all, I feel very happy — because when you’re working on something and you see positive outcomes from it, it makes you feel happy. Even though we have not achieved what we want as a movement, we are getting there, one step at a time.
And of course, advocacy takes time, we all know that, but one thing that I’m happy about is the visibility that it’s getting at the UN, which is very important. I know most people say: “Oh, the UN is not a concrete law: it’s a soft law that is not binding,” but it puts pressure on member States to see and recognise the importance of what the issues are. And I also feel that it also gives us a glimpse of hope that more can be achieved if we keep pushing.
So it’s not just about us sitting down here, but also about the intersex human rights activists and defenders who are back at home doing the work: when they see the outcome of what is happening here, they also believe that there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Because most of the times what we hear from them is “Oh, we don’t know what is going to happen. We don’t even know if anybody is going to take us seriously,” but we just need to keep pushing.
And, you know, this week is a testament of that. So I feel so happy, and it gives me more strength to keep moving.
For the people that might be listening to our podcast now but have not read the report, would you be able to share with them like in a one short sentence, what what’s the biggest takeaway from you from this report?
Joy.
I think the biggest takeaway for me is that the acknowledgement that human rights are not separate from intersex rights: intersex rights are human rights. Intersex people deserve to live a life with dignity, free from harm. We deserve to live a life where we have self-determination and bodily autonomy, where we can make decisions about our body – whether it comes to our health, whether it comes to making decisions around our education, our involvement in sports, our socio-economic development, everything! — that power needs to reside with us.
A lot of the harm that intersex people go through stems from harmful medical interventions. A lot of the discrimination that we face in our lives is because of our parents were either coerced into making a decision around surgery on an intersex child, or a parent was misinformed about their child’s body.
And this doesn’t end in that medical settings, after that medical settings: there are many challenges that I, as an intersex person, faced, and so many intersex people faces across the world.
And I think if we can get intersex people protected within medical settings, it will set up intersex people for success, for a hopeful future, to know that they deserve a life free from harm and free from discrimination.
And I think this report talks about that: it centers intersex voices, and it talks about that intersex people are human, just like everybody else. And we need to be afforded the same human rights as every other human on this planet.
Not speaking as an intersex activist now, but as an intersex person: one thing that the report has done is to validate all we have been saying over the years — that this is true! Most times, people think that what we are talking about is impossible. People have also said to me, to my face, that it is not possible for a human being to have intersex variations. “How possible is that?” But with that report, it shows that all we have been saying in different regions, at every level, is actually true.
Unfortunately, it had to take the UN to bring it out for people to see that it’s true. But it also shows that when a group of people are talking about their issues, it’s important that countries listen. It is important that their agencies back at home listen to what they are sharing, and also work with them to see how they can put a stop to that violence, stop to harmful practices, or a stop to whatever discrimination or stigma that they are talking about.
Given everything that’s going on — with governments rolling back rights or falling short in respecting them – we can all see it’s a difficult moment for international human rights bodies. So, our question is: how can activists on the ground use this historic report and also keep accessing UN spaces?
There are multiple ways that they can use it. For instance, I’ll speak of the African context. The African Intersex Movement has worked with the UNDP – We Belong Africa — to develop a policy brief that talks about the Resolutiuon 552 from the African Commission on Human and Peoples Rights, and also the UN resolution that was passed last year.
So one of the ways is to look at that policy brief when it comes out: it is going to come out very soon and in multiple languages. And also, to look at how it was broken down for you to understand what you can actually share with your States at national level, to see what they can do in terms of standard operating procedures or policies or laws that can be effective in intersex justice.
Another thing that the report can do now is to also help you to compare what the context looks like, and also channel in terms of working with different treaty bodies and Special Rapporteurs. When they call for reports — maybe on violence against women and girls, or on people with disabilities, or on torture — you can send in some information about it.
The UN mechanism is broad and complex: I understand that not everyone understands it. What you can also do, then, is to reach out to other intersex groups — maybe in your region or your country —to collaborate, to see who understands what best. You can put heads together and see how you can reach out to your country office, Ministry of Health, National Commission, or any body that works in your country that supports human rights.
You can also use the report to even write proposals. There are a lot of things you can use that report for, because that report is very comprehensive. So when you read it, it gives you a guide on what you can do or even how to speak about these issues concretely — because, sometimes, the language framing is also a challenge for most intersex activists. So, that report can also help you to frame your language in a way that people understand what you are sharing on ground.
Then you can also use the report to also make simple messages — online information, education and communication messages — for your social media platforms that people can also understand. A lot of people might not want to read the whole report but, if you read it as an as an intersex human rights defender or your organisation reads it, people can be able to bring out some excerpts from it and use it for dissemination and talk about what the report is sharing and also linking it back to your own context, where you are from.
As activists within the UN, the resolution and all those reports… it’s soft laws and it doesn’t necessarily have to be adopted by your State. However, it’s a very vital entry point into conversations with your States that you are having.
A lot of other States has ratified a lot of treaties within the UN: in that way, we could keep them accountable. As Kimberly mentioned earlier, intersex children are facing intersex genital mutilation: this is an issue around children’s rights. Yesterday, the Special Rapporteur on Health mentioned that children are being forcefully sterilised. A lot of our countries has anti sterilisation acts when it comes to children!
There’s a lot of avenues and conversations that you can use with the report and a lot of different angles — especially when it comes to rights of children, rights of women, rights of girls, right to partake in sports… different things that you can do.
And you shouldn’t see it like, “Oh, but this doesn’t have to be adopted by my State, so… you know what? What power does it have?” It has a lot of power, because a lot of our States also come to the UN to get reviewed on what they are doing in their country — not just in the human rights space only, but also within the development space.
In the past, many reports from the OHCHR, for me in South Africa, were an opportunity to speak with my Department of Health, with my Department of Justice. I can quote the report, and I can quote the recommendations, and then it becomes so important and it just adds more power to your advocacy.
And, you know… advocacy looks different for everybody. But I do see that, as intersex people, having this resolution and having this report and also many other reports that have been done by the OHCHR before this, are important tools for us to keep our States accountable, but also to strengthen our own national, regional, and global advocacy.
Now we’re moving on to the last question. What are your hopes for the future after this report launch?
I guess my hope for the future after this report is an acceleration awareness raising around the intersex community and our key issues, and also an increase in outrage over the discrimination and violence that so many of us have experienced — and continue to experience — in different ways across the globe.
Again, a call for a broader group of allies, more resources. More funding is needed for our global movement that has made quite a great deal of progress in a short period of time — particularly given the diminished resources that we have been working with, so, you know… that’s a testament to so many intersex activists who have been tirelessly working very, very often at a volunteer level for many years. But, we just can’t do it alone. So my hope is that we have a broader coalition of peers and activists.
I completely agree with Kimberly here. I think that we, as a movement, have been able to secure some really important benchmarks and reports, which really set out how the human rights system and the norms and principles in the human rights system can and should be applied to our situation. But we have a massive undertaking to do to make sure that those norms and principles are applied in all of our countries.
And that takes people locally, in every State, organising, doing a lot of community development work, developing skills and expertise within our local groups and spaces, engaging in peer support, and providing psychosocial support for people that need it as well. And, with that, going and talking to our national and in some cases our subnational federal jurisdictions as well, to make sure that this is implemented. That takes a huge amount of legwork and that that takes resources. And I think at this point, I think we can all be fairly confident in saying that resource limitations are the main constraint that we face.
I think for me, my hopes for the future is that… About nine years ago — when I started doing intersex advocacy, when I found out I was intersex — I used to Google a lot, and I used to always see these little posters that said “The ‘I’ in the ‘LGBTI’ is not for ‘invisible’, it’s for ‘intersex’”. And at that time, I didn’t understand it, because I was obviously not working in this movement at all.
And then, when I came to the movement, around 2016, I saw the invisibility of intersex people’s issues. I saw intersex people being raised out of conversations, I saw how people would sensationalise our stories, how they just want to speak about our genitals… they don’t want to speak about us as intersex people, but they want to find sensation in our story.
And I think my hope for the future now is, with all of this visibility, that it will be used as a tool of power. Because I know what visibility comes a lot of things, right? There’s also a lot of harm with visibility, there’s also a lot of discomfort, there’s also a lot of discrimination with being visible.
But I think with this visibility within the UN, I think there’s… I don’t know: in Africa, we always had this thing where intersex people would be seen as a myth, you know? That “Oh, intersex people don’t really exist.”
But now, we have shown that intersex people exist. We are part of societies. We are part of communities. We are families. We are daughters. We are children. We are parents. We exist everywhere in society. And I think, now, my hope for the future is us using this visibility as positivity and as power to continue until all intersex people are free.
I think those those words are so powerful, Crystal. And thank you for articulating that. For me… I mean, I completely see it as well, this notion that intersex people are invisible, and it seems like we often are invisible.
But I think it’s more than that. I think there’s something else that’s often true as well, and that’s that intersex is usually treated as a tool in the armor, or the toolbox, of people working on other issues.
Particularly every debate out in the world right now about biological sex is talking about bodies in ways that are often incredibly reductive and simplistic, talking about models of sex determination that are only model representations of the real world and don’t respect or reflect the true diversity of bodies and traits that exist in the real world. Because they’re models are representations, they’re not reality!
Often people talk about intersex as part of a debate about the rights of women and the rights of trans people, and we’re just a battering ram, with very simplistic arguments on both sides of that debate, which can be really harmful and can really alienate a lot of people with intersex variations in our communities.
So, there is actually some direct harm, I think, from the ways that people talk about who we are — and not just talk about who we are, but talk about how we should be, how we should be treated. And those are often, you know, again: ideas or models or norms that don’t actually have any grounding in what actually happens to us. And this report is a way of bringing that debate back to talk about the human rights of the people in our population in our own way.
Making rainbow waves is a podcast by ILGA World. This episode was hosted by Evá Papadakis and edited by Daniele Paletta. You can find every episode on all streaming platforms. A transcription of this episode in English, and its translation to Spanish, are available on ilga.org. Thanks for listening.
